The Long Game MI
A podcast about youth sports development and how programs like Mercer Island Lacrosse build champions, on and off the field.
The Long Game MI
Ep. 7. The View From Across the Field: Rivalry and Respect for the Game
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Today The Long Game explores two new perspectives: a rival coach on the opposite sideline, and a referee on the field.
Nick Welton was Bellevue’s head coach from 2017 until he left the program in 2022. In that time, Bellevue and Mercer Island repeatedly met on the biggest stage in Washington high school lacrosse. Bellevue won three state championships under Nick — all against Mercer Island.
But this conversation isn’t about bragging rights. Nick discusses a rival’s view of Mercer Island, why healthy rivalries raise standards and make both sides better, and how he and Ian O’Hearn built real friendship and respect while competing fiercely against each other.
He also explains why great cultures require clear standards, real accountability, and consequences when the standard isn’t met.
Finally, Nick brings a perspective every sports parent should hear: the referee’s. Nick explains why sideline behavior matters, how parents affect young officials, and why respecting refs is part of respecting the game.
A conversation about rivalry with deep respect, standards without shortcuts, and competition that helps kids become champions, on and off the field.
Opinions expressed are only those of the host and guest and not necessarily those of Mercer Island Lacrosse.
Welcome to the Long Game, a podcast about youth sports development and how programs like Mercer Island Lacrosse build champions on and off the field. I'm your host, Matt Cooper.
SPEAKER_01Listeners, welcome to the podcast. Most of our conversations here on the long game about youth sports and long-term development have looked at Mercer Island Lacrosse from the inside, through the founders, coaches, and alumni who built the culture and have protected it. Today we're going to look at it from across the field. From 2017 until he left the program in 2022, Nick Welton was head coach at Bellevue, one of Mercer Island's rivals. During that stretch, there were four AAA state championship games, and all of them were between Bellevue and Mercer Island. Under Nick's leadership, Bellevue won three of those games, three state championships in four years. So Nick didn't just watch Mercer Island. He scouted us, competed against us, beat us, and did it all while continuing a friendship with Ian O'Hearn and our coaches. Today we'll discuss the power of healthy rivalries and why they're important to well-run programs. And Nick brings another perspective we haven't heard yet on this podcast. He's a high-level lacrosse referee. So we'll discuss standards, parent behavior, and respect for the game. So Nick, welcome. Before we get to know you a bit, let's start with today's theme. Why are rivalries so great for youth sports?
SPEAKER_02Thank you to the Mercer Island Lacrosse Club for having me. Lacrosse rivalries are a heightened state of competition where kids get pressured to do their best, they get excited about what it means to represent their community, work hard, and it's just a fun time and milestone in a given season.
SPEAKER_01We're going to explore that a bit more through today's episode, Nick, but first give us the quick version of your of your lacrosse story growing up in Idaho.
SPEAKER_02I started playing lacrosse in seventh grade. I didn't want to play baseball. I saw some kids having fun running around with sticks and helmets. I thought, you know what, I want to do that. And after that, it was a bunch of people investing in me and creating opportunities for me to play the sport that I really, really appreciate. From other high school players investing in me to my high school head coach, who I feel extremely lucky to have been coached by. He was a national champion with Navy in the 50s and was a wealth of information and wish I could have conversations about lacrosse with right now.
SPEAKER_01He's no longer with us, I assume.
SPEAKER_02No, he is not. I went on to play NCL lacrosse at Lehigh University while I got my degree in computer engineering and was able to work in a robotics lab and do some other activities on campus, which is great. So I was able to balance my academic and my lacrosse goals through college. And then I came out here in 2012 and got plugged into the lacrosse community very quickly and started at Bellevue Lacrosse shortly thereafter.
SPEAKER_01And you worked at various assistant roles from that time that you described up until 2017 when you became the program director and head high school coach. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yep, that's correct.
SPEAKER_01And talk a little bit about when at that period when you became the program director and head high school coach, how do you think about what it was that you were trying to build?
SPEAKER_02At that point in time, I had already been involved in the program and I understood the mission of the program and the core values of the program. My goal in the transition was to preserve the path that the players had already begun because they were in the middle of the season. John Bauman and Chris Bergen and all the many board members and volunteers had been doing such great work up through that time to help Belv lacrosse be successful. And I was felt an extreme privilege to continue on that path of pursuing our goals, promoting our core values, and ultimately trying to bring out excellence through sports.
SPEAKER_01And during your Bellevue years, uh all four state championship games, while you were with the program until 2002, that state championship ran through Bellevue and Mercer Island. What did that feel like from your side?
SPEAKER_02I like to say that the fight makes the fighter. And you know, other people will say iron sharpens iron. Sometimes I say a rising tide lifts all ships. I wanted to play against an opponent that was skilled and disciplined and gave us an opportunity to focus on being our best because they pushed us to a level that was required in order to have the outcomes we were looking for at the end of the games. Mercer Island is a longtime successful program and powerhouse. From the very first game that we played against Mercer Island in 2017, there was a lot of pressure to be successful. At that point, I'm interested in winning the contests and making sure that my players were best equipped to be successful against a great rivalry team. When I look back now about the impact over time, I have really just come to appreciate the fierce competition because ultimately that competition is what facilitates our ability to work on these things that we value in sport camaraderie, dedication, discipline, and Mercer Island is a great opponent to be able to exercise all that against. I would say that with the state championships, I've had the fortune to have several state championships, and it's important for me to give the perspective of somebody that has had that opportunity, and that is those championships represent an experience that I had with a group of players, other coaches, and parents. And those relationships persist far beyond whatever that trophy or ring represented in that moment. The relationships that I built during those times are the durable factor, and those are the true gifts in my life. That can be done at any level of the game, pursuing any level of contest. And so it's important to remember that in this pursuit of building the program is building durable relationships that last a lifetime. That's the true gift. We build those relationships in that scaffold of competition. Um but the perspective is that the championships, that championship weekend feels amazing, but it's a short-term milestone for the long-term relationships that you build.
SPEAKER_01And you've touched on this in your time when you were with Bellevue. How how did Bellevue and Mercer Island make each other better?
SPEAKER_02The four pillars of my programs are lacrosse skills development, academic partnership, physical development, and human development. There's a lot that goes into each of those pillars. But I can tell you that the work that we do, the progression that we make in those four pillars, is bound to the scaffold of competition. So in simple way to say it, the fact that we get to play the game that we love and work hard in it is how we develop as people. And that's the the great thing that I love about sports. And when you have a fierce opponent, somebody that is continually raising the bar with and for you, you have to bring your best. So all of those things that we get to focus on, yeah, at Bellevue they say, do the little things. So the fierce, the fierce competition and raising the bar makes us focus on what we're doing to be our best across all four of those dimensions. If you're not well prepared in the classroom, you're not going to get playing time. If um you're not taking care of yourself, you're not going to perform well. And if you're not being a good person, you know, you're creating problems for the team and your community. So competition is the scaffold on which all of those things are built. And so as the competition sharpens, so does the focus on all those other dynamics.
SPEAKER_01I think it's fair to say that you and and our head coach Ian O'Hearn were fierce competitors, but you clearly respect each other deeply and and remain friends. How did that relationship develop?
SPEAKER_02I first met Ian at a lacrosse convention on the East Coast, and I was an assistant coach at Bellevue at the time. I always heard that he was a competitive person that had high expectations. And those are two things that resonate with me. So when I had an opportunity to meet with him, we had a casual conversation, and it was a great first interaction. And then over time, we realized that our program success are dependent on the success of those around us. And so we've always felt I've always felt invested in uh the success of the broader lacrosse community. Ian feels the same way, and so I would say some shared values there and shared interest in trying to develop the lacrosse community and our own programs to the best of our ability.
SPEAKER_01What do you respect most about him as a coach?
SPEAKER_02Ian deeply cares, and it's easy to care less over a long period of time. There are other things that are going on in life. Ian is steadfast and he anchors the program in the core mission and core values and is willing to set strong expectations and accountabilities to make sure that the program continues to be successful. I appreciate that about Ian. He also deeply cares about the people that he's with. So he cares about his players, he cares about his coaches, and I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01Nick, a lot of programs talk about culture, discipline, development, the things that you and I have talked about here, and that this podcast focuses on. I think a real test is whether another coach can see those things on film, on the scouting report, on game day. You had to prepare for Mercer, and then you watch from the other sideline. From across the field, what stands out either about Mercer Island Lacrosse or other programs that like them or like you at Bellevue focus on long-term development? What's different about those programs?
SPEAKER_02A manifestation of successful programs is the way their players conduct themselves on and off the field. And I've never had a Mercer Island player, despite all of these intense games that we've had against each other, treat me with disrespect, not shake my hand, anything like that in both wins and losses. And to me, that is a strong representation of culture. I would also say, and I've heard from other coaches, how much they respect the discipline that Mercer Island players bring to their practices and their games, and that starts with expectations and accountabilities from the coach and the coaching staff.
SPEAKER_01And we'll talk a little bit later about your your philosophy when it comes to standards. So I assume that that's similar, a similar way that you try to coach your teams when you were when you were in coaching. Was there something about programs that are well run that don't show up in the stat sheet, but do show up when you play them on the field?
SPEAKER_02The thing that doesn't show up in a stat sheet is really how a team conducts themselves in adversity of the game. A team may be up or maybe down, and there is a mental performance response from the players during those conditions. And you don't you may see a swing in stats, but you don't really see how the team is responding. And I think the Mercer Island teams have always been fairly battle strong, meaning whether they're up or whether they're down, the team is consistent and is working hard, taking moment by moment, and trying to control the things that they can control. And I see that when players are not running off the field, taking their helmets off, or throwing their gloves on the on the ground when they get to the bench, or hanging their heads, or fighting with each other.
SPEAKER_01So we're going to switch gears a little bit and talk about kind of standards, expectations, and the pressure to win, which you alluded to earlier. One of the things you and I talked about is that sometimes um players or or parents, maybe more so, at programs like Bellevue and Mercer Island that are traditionally successful often have little patience for years that frankly don't end in a state championship. Why is that dangerous?
SPEAKER_02The danger is that we don't give ourselves an opportunity to fail. And what a better place to fail than in a sports arena. Because if we are really trying to develop resilience, fortitude, you know, all the things that are equipping young people and even ourselves, coaches and players and parents, mind you, like the experience for parents. They learn things, yeah, everybody's learning stuff along this way. And when you don't give people an opportunity to fail, you are you, in a sense, are robbing them from the opportunity to grow. And when success or failure is only determined by a win or a loss of a contest, that is misplaced expectation. And we're losing the point. Lacrosse is a great sandbox for us to develop those other things that will make our players successful over a long period of time, and we get to do it while having fun. And that's the great part about sport. But the reality is the discipline, the character development, the um constructive conflict, the challenge through adversity, and the resilience that we build in players, we get to do that, and we get to invest in each other, doing it in something that we love. That is really what we're trying to do here. Invest in our communities, lift people up, build resilient young people to go off and be successful, to have happy lives, to understand what it's like to work through challenges, because they'll have them. And this is the durable thing. Lacrosse, some people will play lacrosse their whole lives in some form or fashion, and that's great. But the majority of them won't. But I guarantee you, every single person will have extreme adversity in their life. And these are the things that we get to develop in our players.
SPEAKER_01Nick, before we talk about standards generally, um, you told me a story about your uh high school football program where a parent's behavior affected the excellent program that you were a part of. Tell us that story briefly, please, and why it stuck with you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um I grew up in a community that was heavily invested in football. I started playing football when I was seven years old, and I played all the way through my senior year of high school. With program success comes expectations, and my team had a lot of success. State championships, conference championships. I have a particular story. As a junior on the varsity team, we had a player who was in a critical role begin to perform poorly, not just on the field, but also as a teammate. That player was benched, and rightfully so. The majority of the players thought that was the right decision. That player did not think it was the right decision, and neither did his family. And I was proud of my coach for making the decision that needed to be made. Me and my teammates would have lost respect for my coach for not making the right decision for the team because of a pressure from a particular player and their family. That family went on to tie the coach and the coaching staff up in a series of administrative meetings, created a lot of overhead for my team and my coaches. Really, they have a finite amount of time that they can dedicate each day. And that particular player and their family stole, took away the time that would be spent preparing the entire team to be tied up in this argument about whether or not the kid was treated justly for their poor performance. Ultimately, the coach decided that that was going to be his last year as head coach of the program. And that certainly stuck with me because one disgruntled player and family for being held accountable to the standards of the team wanted an exception, and they took issue with it. And ultimately, they displaced good people and took a lot of stole a lot of time and energy, what could have been positive from a lot of other players.
SPEAKER_01And I think one of the things you told me, and I expect the experience you just described shaped this is that great programs. I think when you were coaching Bellevue, you aimed for this, um, needs three things. A high bar, high standards, number one. Number two, parents and players who meet that bar. And importantly, number three, consequences when the bar is not met. Say a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER_02Well, to maintain a culture, you have to have a set of uh standards. Standards mean nothing if there's not uh a disciplined pursuit of those standards, which often means uh that people have to be held accountable for those standards. Culture is easily eroded and it must be extremely guarded and respected. But culture only can persist as long as standards are upheld, and that means that people are accountable for holding that standard. The divergence comes when people want the same outcomes, but they're not willing to hold themselves to the same high standard. And as custodians of the culture, it's important that you have consequences to make sure that the people are accountable for holding that standard.
SPEAKER_01So so let me make a concrete example and maybe give some advice right now to let's say a parent whose son fails to meet a standard in a program run like you're describing, and the son is is being held accountable and the parent doesn't like it. What do you say to that parent?
SPEAKER_02It's a great opportunity with very low stakes in the grand scheme of things for people to learn about consequences. I believe that if you are getting out in front of the consequence, you are robbing the individual of a great experience that will serve them well in the future. Simple example. When you show up late to practice, there are consequences. I don't care why you showed up late to practice, you showed up late to practice, there are consequences. Now, there are maybe some exceptions, but when you just show up late and there's no reason for that, then there's going to be a consequence. I understand that parents want to defend their kid and do what they think is best for the kid, and I think that's great. I believe the majority of the time that when a kid experiences a consequence for not meeting a standard, it's a great opportunity for that kid to learn a lesson and to grow, build some resilience, handle the conflict. How do they handle that conflict? Is it a are they managing that in a constructive way? I say that for I wanted two gifts for my players when they they leave my program or anytime I get to work with them. Number one is a great sense of self-efficacy. Common phrase for that is growth mindset. Hey, I can take on tasks that I might not have the immediate skills to accomplish, but I know I can learn and grow through that, and then I can accomplish my goal. And the second one is a capacity for constructive conflict. Capacity is the critical word here because it's not developed in an instant. It is developed over time with having hard conversations with your friends, having difficult conversations with your parents, having difficult conversations with your teacher, your future boss, all the things that are going to happen in life, this capacity is developed over time. So holding a standard, the consequence is an opportunity for somebody to build a capacity for constructive conflict, and it's a gift. It also builds resilience because okay, there was a standard, I didn't uphold it, and now I have to deal with the consequence. And the good thing is it's lacrosse and you get to move on.
SPEAKER_01That's right. It's in a low-stakes world. If you or I as executives miss a meeting, the consequences are going to be higher than than if a player misses a practice. And so learn when the stakes are lower. So those lessons when uh when the consequences are higher, they they have that skill.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we're gonna move on to our lightning round. You've heard the podcast. Key here is is brief, quick answers. That uh first thing that comes to mind. That's hard for me. We'll uh do your best. One word that describes Mercer Island from the opposite sideline. Excellence. One word that describes the Bellevue Mercer Island rivalry. Fierce. One trait all great programs share.
SPEAKER_02Attention to detail. Referees share the same goals as parents, players, and coaches. That is ensuring there is a successful, fair, and safe contest every time people step on the field.
SPEAKER_01Something young players worry about that matters less than they think.
SPEAKER_02How they look.
SPEAKER_01Something they don't worry about enough.
SPEAKER_02Playing the game for the enjoyment of the sport.
SPEAKER_01The best thing about coaching that nobody tells you going in.
SPEAKER_02It invokes the same competitive spirit as as when you're playing.
SPEAKER_01Okay. That's the end of the lightning round. But today I want to use the parent clarity segment for something that only you can really speak to, and that's the perspective of referees. Now to state the obvious, we we need refs. There are no games without them. You've felt the pressure, you've heard the stands and the sidelines, and you've seen what it does to refs, especially the young kids who are just starting out. What's your perspective on the current state of parent behavior and what you've seen in the time that you've been a referee?
SPEAKER_02Well, I've never seen an official overturn a call based on what the parents were yelling from the sideline.
SPEAKER_01Good point first for the parents listening to this to take.
SPEAKER_02And it's important for everyone around in sport to understand that there will be successes and failures. There will be mistakes along the way from every single party that's participating in the contest, coaches, players, and officials. And everybody should be given the grace to learn and grow as they develop. So I've heard and witnessed I've witnessed bad behavior from youth parents towards youth officials who are high school kids themselves. And again, no call is ever overturned because somebody some parent yelled something at the official. It only erodes the experience of the participants in the contest. So when somebody chooses to interject from the sideline, all it does is erode the experience of everybody else on the field, and likely the experience of everybody else around the person yelling.
SPEAKER_01And are we, Nick, actually losing officials because of um parent behavior, especially the younger refs who might not have developed the resilience to take comments like you're referencing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this is not unique to lacrosse, but the officials community experiences extreme attrition after just a couple of years. And it's I'll say the same thing that I tell coaches is that when they're worried about the calls the officials are making, it is taking away the attention from another part of the game. So as a coach, if they're complaining about a call, it's taking away their it's it's occupying their attention that otherwise could be given to something else about the game, the contest that they could be doing to be successful. And the same thing from a parent perspective. When you're complaining about the officials' calls, you're not thinking about the beautiful day, the great camaraderie with the people that you're around, and you're not appreciating the play that's happening on the field. You're worried about what the call was and not, wow, what a great moment you know, number two had just one second ago.
SPEAKER_01So what do you think a parent should do if they're convinced that a call on the field was missed?
SPEAKER_02It's to it depends on who you're sitting with, but you certainly can have the conversation with the people that are around you and say, hey, I don't understand that, or I don't think that was a great call. That kind of commentary is I don't think it's harmful unless people are tired of the people around you are tired of your commentary about the calls. Um there's nothing outside of some extreme scenario, there's nothing that you can say that's ultimately going to change the course of what's unfolding between the officials and the game.
SPEAKER_01You think coaches should do anything when their own sideliner parents are getting pretty vocal with the refs?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's actually the duty of the coach to control their fans. And some coaches may disagree with that, but the reality is that we can officials can give conduct penalties to a team for their for their fans. I've had moments where I've had to have conversations with the coach, hey, let's go take care of this, you know, these people uh over here, and we need to have the behavior stop. If it is not gonna stop, then there are gonna be consequences for that. One, the team can be awarded penalties. Two, actually, you can ask for those parents or the people that are being disruptive to leave the stadium. And everybody should have a stadium manager and can enforce that that uh removal.
SPEAKER_01Can you sum up this segment? I think I know what you're gonna say given given what you've said here, but uh can you think of one simple rule, condense it to one simple rule every parent should follow towards officials?
SPEAKER_02Empathy brings us a long way in life and understanding the perspective of somebody else. Understand that the official is out there to try to create the best possible environment for the players and the coaches and the fans to enjoy a safe, successful contest. And for youth officials, I think parents should look and say, Hey, if that was my kid, how would I hope some stranger treats them? And if you were out there on the field as an official, you know, for those older officials, you know, how would you want somebody to treat you? And think about that. In a high stakes moment, have you ever made a mistake? In a high stakes moment, have you ever made a decision that would make somebody unhappy? Most people will say yes. And understand that the officials are out there not to make one group or one party happy and the other one upset. They're there to officiate the game. So putting yourself in their shoes.
SPEAKER_01That's a great way to think about it. I've certainly made mistakes, so I think that's a great thing for parents to hear. I'll kind of sum up the episode here with a final question. After everything you've you've seen and done, high-level athlete in youth sports, assistant coach, head coach at a very successful program and referee. What would you say adults owe kids in youth sports that we can do better as adults and sports parents?
SPEAKER_02As I've alluded to earlier, this sport is a great sandbox for life. It feels real. Everything feels very intense and very real, and that's the magic about it. But the reality is this is a great proving ground. This is a great opportunity to try to fail, to make mistakes, to learn, to cry, to laugh, the whole end-to-end spectrum of emotions. This is the place to do it because the stakes are low, but it feels so high. Bringing that in, not giving your athletes opportunities to try and to fail sets them up. You I really feel like you are robbing them from the opportunity to be given a gift that they will be able to use in other parts of their life. The other thing is um parents owe the kids kids have to enjoy the game first and foremost. And at the end of the day, that is what makes people play the game for their whole lives because they enjoy the magic of the sport. It's not the pursuit of a particular accolade at any particular time. So give the space an opportunity for the kids to just love and play the game.
SPEAKER_01What a perfect way to end, Nick. Uh you brought exactly the perspective I was hoping for, uh, the view from across the field, what a program with solid culture looks like to a coach trying to beat it and who was trying to build it on his own team, how rivals bring out the best in each other, and that great cultures require standards, they require consequences, and they require adults who respect the game and the people roughing it. Because look, in the end, uh playing the long game means realizing that, as you say, the main benefit of sports for most kids are the long-term lessons that make them better people and that lead to success off the field. Your insights today reinforce that for us. So, Nick, thanks for joining us and thanks for everything that you've done for the kids and the teams here in the Pacific Northwest.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks to everybody that's that's working to promote the values and the values of a great program and also investing in the broader lacrosse community.
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